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View Full Version : Suspension set up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Midnight
19-01-10, 20:08
Ok i thought i would start a tread on this as it would be great to hear or share any info that could contribute to a better set up drift car.

I know there is SOOOO many different set ups to suit booth driver and car,but a general overshoot of some settings that may favour people like myself that are not big up on this.

Any usefull info especially from the pro-drivers who seem to have a good idea and competeing hard.:D:D

ok so some cars :S13
S15
AE86
RX7
4DOOR PIMPERS :D
E36
Just some examples.Now suspension wise maybe some info on the likes of

:Caster
:Camber
Spring rating
:extra lock
:wheel widhts etc
hope this isnt too complicated:p

Ok let the fun begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Midnight
19-01-10, 23:13
Nobody man enough:D:D:D

tweek
19-01-10, 23:34
you only have the post up 3hours

Jay Rockett
19-01-10, 23:43
I just posted this in the tech section, its quite basic and supposed to be best to learn with.. But everyones gona have there own personal thing so...!

Based on an S14

FRONT:
2.5 deg negative Camber
7-8 deg possitive Caster
0 deg Toe

REAR:
1.5 deg negative Camber
0 deg Toe

And shit looooooooadsa lock:D

NIALL JZX
19-01-10, 23:52
something i came across before

REAR;
Camber -0.65 deg either side
Toe -0.25 deg over all


FRONT;
Camber (Competition) -2.25 deg either side
Camber (road & drift) -1.25 deg either side
Castor 3.5
Toe 0

PeterT
20-01-10, 00:15
mine sucks :D but im used to it, i reckon other people would hate it haha, kinda low, rear coilovers and same height but adjusted differantly, alightments well off due to hicas being worn, front cambers differant on both sides due to 4 bent arms, (thanks dave + curb!) and ive never checked and of the rebound settings ha. keep her country!

it is on my immediate to do list though once i have some money itl be getting aligned in some way, and the camber issue sorted out, and extra lock spacers put in of course!

gem-s13
20-01-10, 00:22
mine sucks :D but im used to it, i reckon other people would hate it haha, kinda low, rear coilovers and same height but adjusted differantly, alightments well off due to hicas being worn, front cambers differant on both sides due to 4 bent arms, (thanks dave + curb!) and ive never checked and of the rebound settings ha. keep her country!

it is on my immediate to do list though once i have some money itl be getting aligned in some way, and the camber issue sorted out, and extra lock spacers put in of course!

ah yes the poor oul ceffy id say from looking that day its prob running 1.0 neg camber and 3deg castor on the front left and 1.0 pos camber and 1 deg castor on front left and is towed in about 2degs on each wheel!!



and it still slides fecking deadly!!! so all this crap about set up is balls get in and drive the fucking car!!! dont just talk about it (this is aimed at a certain person you no who you are!!!)

PeterT
20-01-10, 00:29
ah yes the poor oul ceffy id say from looking that day its prob running 1.0 neg camber and 3deg castor on the front left and 1.0 pos camber and 1 deg castor on front left and is towed in about 2degs on each wheel!!



and it still slides fecking deadly!!! so all this crap about set up is balls get in and drive the fucking car!!! dont just talk about it (this is aimed at a certain person you no who you are!!!)

thats my theory exactly! im the same with every car....just get used to it and lower where necessary haha

Gar-4-age 86
20-01-10, 00:54
thats my theory exactly! im the same with every car....just get used to it and lower where necessary haha

Exactly dump the car on the ground till its completly undriveable and then just get used to it i.e. rag the tits of it:D

Robbie Daly Ps13
20-01-10, 18:57
ah yes the poor oul ceffy id say from looking that day its prob running 1.0 neg camber and 3deg castor on the front left and 1.0 pos camber and 1 deg castor on front left and is towed in about 2degs on each wheel!!



and it still slides fecking deadly!!! so all this crap about set up is balls get in and drive the fucking car!!! dont just talk about it (this is aimed at a certain person you no who you are!!!)

Don't be talking shite........ A drift car is all about the setup....... As the saying gos powers nothing without control......... Which couldn't be a truer statement........ If your going in narrow minded like that ya'l never get anywhere.........

twailbait
20-01-10, 19:14
Don't be talking shite........ A drift car is all about the setup....... As the saying gos powers nothing without control......... Which couldn't be a truer statement........ If your going in narrow minded like that ya'l never get anywhere.........

Or you could look at it from another point of view, instead of the car being the main factor, maybe its the drivers ability, a good driver should still be good with a badly set up car!

Polo
20-01-10, 22:13
There are many many more factors than just car and driver, the major factors IMO are
> Power
> The amount of grip you want
> Tyres(width/make etc etc)
> Weight of the car
> Spring rates
> Speed
> The adjustablity of the cars suspension

Althogh the things above are all to do with the car, you could spend days setting up a car, unless the driver can feel and notice the differance whats the point;)

Il jot down below a range of figers on cars iv set up and delt with and try to explane a bit more. With out giving away too much of course;)

Front camber range from 3degs to 7.5degs, on any competition car you dont want any less than 3degs camber. 2.5degs for road/drift setup but 3.5degs wont kill any one.
Castor, the more castor you hav ehte faster the steering corrects its self but be carfull, too much castor kills steering lock. Range 6degs to 9degs.
Toe is a bit of a personal oppinion, being RWD 0 is acceptable but for comfort and stability at speed with more than 3degs camber 10-20mins. This all goes out the window as soon as you put any steering lock on so prety pointless on a drift car.
Front camber and castor also have a big impact on how much front end grip/tyre contact you have mid drift.

Rear camber is the biggie yet the range is one of the smallest;) +.5degs to -1.5degs. The flatter the tyre tread on the ground the more traction youl have. This is where spring rate also comes into effect, if you have soft springs, when the car squats down under power, the camber will change drematicly. i.e So setting the camber to -.5degs static may become -1.5degs under load.
Toe, the more toe in you have the more traction youl gain, but be carfull, too little or too much can cause the car to handle like a pig. Range 0degs to 2degs IN.

My alignment figgers are top secret:p

grimix180
20-01-10, 22:42
Exactly dump the car on the ground till its completly undriveable and then just get used to it i.e. rag the tits of it:D
ha ha love it:D:D:D sounds like a good setup for a cam all there good 4 is raggin the tits outta them lol

jamie180sx
20-01-10, 22:49
There are many many more factors than just car and driver, the major factors IMO are
> Power
> The amount of grip you want
> Tyres(width/make etc etc)
> Weight of the car
> Spring rates
> Speed
> The adjustablity of the cars suspension

Althogh the things above are all to do with the car, you could spend days setting up a car, unless the driver can feel and notice the differance whats the point;)

Il jot down below a range of figers on cars iv set up and delt with and try to explane a bit more. With out giving away too much of course;)

Front camber range from 3degs to 7.5degs, on any competition car you dont want any less than 3degs camber. 2.5degs for road/drift setup but 3.5degs wont kill any one.
Castor, the more castor you hav ehte faster the steering corrects its self but be carfull, too much castor kills steering lock. Range 6degs to 9degs.
Toe is a bit of a personal oppinion, being RWD 0 is acceptable but for comfort and stability at speed with more than 3degs camber 10-20mins. This all goes out the window as soon as you put any steering lock on so prety pointless on a drift car.
Front camber and castor also have a big impact on how much front end grip/tyre contact you have mid drift.

Rear camber is the biggie yet the range is one of the smallest;) +.5degs to -1.5degs. The flatter the tyre tread on the ground the more traction youl have. This is where spring rate also comes into effect, if you have soft springs, when the car squats down under power, the camber will change drematicly. i.e So setting the camber to -.5degs static may become -1.5degs under load.
Toe, the more toe in you have the more traction youl gain, but be carfull, too little or too much can cause the car to handle like a pig. Range 0degs to 2degs IN.

My alignment figgers are top secret:p

good write up,good to see someone with expierence in setting these up,

PeterT
20-01-10, 23:54
Althogh the things above are all to do with the car, you could spend days setting up a car, unless the driver can feel and notice the differance whats the point;)



yeh thats where im at, i never notice any differance in anything, i tend to just get used to it and it feels like the same as always after the first little sjid around a bend :D good info in that though. you have serious neg camber up front dont you, looks like a caracature picture or something:p

Jay Rockett
21-01-10, 00:06
you have serious neg camber up front dont you, looks like a caracature picture or something:p

That'll be the hubs!;)

PeterT
21-01-10, 00:07
That'll be the hubs!;)


didnt read the whole thign,as i saw lots of numbers i wouldnt understand:p:p

Polo
21-01-10, 00:19
yeh thats where im at, i never notice any differance in anything, i tend to just get used to it and it feels like the same as always after the first little sjid around a bend :D good info in that though. you have serious neg camber up front dont you, looks like a caracature picture or something:p

TBH, fine tuning like that only really comes into effect once you are running the same tyre every time. If your using part worns, some 3 months old some 3 years old, with 40mm differance in width and any brand from linglong to toyo, your not going to be able to set the car up right, as every time you get in it itl act differantly. You can only set it to a base setting, go from there and hope that just tyre pressures well sort it on the day.


That'll be the hubs!;)

The camber i run is not from the hubs them selfs, its to get the max performance from the hubs;)

PeterT
21-01-10, 00:22
TBH, fine tuning like that only really comes into effect once you are running the same tyre every time. If your using part worns, some 3 months old some 3 years old, with 40mm differance in width and any brand from linglong to toyo, your not going to be able to set the car up right, as every time you get in it itl act differantly. You can only set it to a base setting, go from there and hope that just tyre pressures well sort it on the day.





yeh yeh i hear ya. ive never skidded a new set of tyres in my life:o! ha. im a cheap kunt:D

gem-s13
21-01-10, 00:25
Don't be talking shite........ A drift car is all about the setup....... As the saying gos powers nothing without control......... Which couldn't be a truer statement........ If your going in narrow minded like that ya'l never get anywhere.........

here lad my car is set up the way i want it and it feels perfect for the way i want to drive it it goes where i want to put it! im talking about people who spend a hell of a lot of money on every adjustable arm and link avalible and wouldnt drive a nail trough a soggy turnip!! whats the point im not saying im a fantastic drifter, but when ur at our level you do not need to set up the car the same way as pro drivers just get in and drive the fucking car sped ur money on seat time!!!! then when you can acccually feel every move the car is makeing then start thinking of setting it up the way you want it to feel not the way all the top lads do it because thats what they do doesnt mean it will work for you

Polo
21-01-10, 00:40
here lad my car is set up the way i want it and it feels perfect for the way i want to drive it it goes where i want to put it! im talking about people who spend a hell of a lot of money on every adjustable arm and link avalible and wouldnt drive a nail trough a soggy turnip!! whats the point im not saying im a fantastic drifter, but when ur at our level you do not need to set up the car the same way as pro drivers just get in and drive the fucking car sped ur money on seat time!!!! then when you can acccually feel every move the car is makeing then start thinking of setting it up the way you want it to feel not the way all the top lads do it because thats what they do doesnt mean it will work for you

Correct :D Seat time!!!

Tho a basic set up and check over is a good idea, most cars as standard have some adjustment;)

gem-s13
21-01-10, 00:52
Correct :D Seat time!!!

Tho a basic set up and check over is a good idea, most cars as standard have some adjustment;)

ye im not saying have it arse ways but no need to spend a grand on every arm possible! a set of rear camber arms to keep rear tyers wearing a bit better then drive the thing!! and spend the money on tyres fuel and entry fees untill u need to set the car up to a pro level

PeterT
21-01-10, 11:09
heres gems point in a video, mjg's 200 pound shitter, and he won a bdc round in it and all! chopped springs and fuck all set up can be done if youve got the skeeeeels!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79VoYojwWyI

Simon
21-01-10, 12:23
heres gems point in a video, mjg's 200 pound shitter, and he won a bdc round in it and all! chopped springs and fuck all set up can be done if youve got the skeeeeels!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79VoYojwWyI

thats a cooooool video, his build thread on DW is coool!

Midnight
21-01-10, 13:09
Good on you polo thats the input i was hopeing for.

What tyre presures would you guys recomend for which conditions,i know it would vary from tyre to trye.???

Robbie Daly Ps13
21-01-10, 18:09
here lad my car is set up the way i want it and it feels perfect for the way i want to drive it it goes where i want to put it! im talking about people who spend a hell of a lot of money on every adjustable arm and link avalible and wouldnt drive a nail trough a soggy turnip!! whats the point im not saying im a fantastic drifter, but when ur at our level you do not need to set up the car the same way as pro drivers just get in and drive the fucking car sped ur money on seat time!!!! then when you can acccually feel every move the car is makeing then start thinking of setting it up the way you want it to feel not the way all the top lads do it because thats what they do doesnt mean it will work for you

In this your after saying exactly all any driver wants........ "it feels perfect for the way i drive and it gos where i want to put it" Sure what more do ya want......... What im saying if a car isn't doing what you want it to do then its a waste of time ya might as well stay at home cause ya only annoy yourself........ The essintials ya need: Good set of coilovers with ride height camber ajustment and dampining:ajustable castor arms tie rods and camber arms and toe arms...... And a hicas lock out or eliminator........ In my eyes every car should have these and yes it is possiable to drift without them but its an awful lot easier with them................

Robbie Daly Ps13
21-01-10, 18:11
Good on you polo thats the input i was hopeing for.

What tyre presures would you guys recomend for which conditions,i know it would vary from tyre to trye.???

I run 28 on the front and 32 on the ass:D

Simon
21-01-10, 18:27
In this your after saying exactly all any driver wants........ "it feels perfect for the way i drive and it gos where i want to put it" Sure what more do ya want......... What im saying if a car isn't doing what you want it to do then its a waste of time ya might as well stay at home cause ya only annoy yourself........ The essintials ya need: Good set of coilovers with ride height camber ajustment and dampining:ajustable castor arms tie rods and camber arms and toe arms...... And a hicas lock out or eliminator........ In my eyes every car should have these and yes it is possiable to drift without them but its an awful lot easier with them................

so there for it shows sheer talent if ya can do it just as good without all them mods!?

Robbie Daly Ps13
21-01-10, 18:41
so there for it shows sheer talent if ya can do it just as good without all them mods!?

You show me a champion drifter without them mods.......?

Gar-4-age 86
21-01-10, 18:45
In this your after saying exactly all any driver wants........ "it feels perfect for the way i drive and it gos where i want to put it" Sure what more do ya want......... What im saying if a car isn't doing what you want it to do then its a waste of time ya might as well stay at home cause ya only annoy yourself........ The essintials ya need: Good set of coilovers with ride height camber ajustment and dampining:ajustable castor arms tie rods and camber arms and toe arms...... And a hicas lock out or eliminator........ In my eyes every car should have these and yes it is possiable to drift without them but its an awful lot easier with them................

All of that only applies with experience obviously a car will be easier to drift but thats bull when your startin off your wastin your time and money without seat time..... Is say if there was one thing 100% necessary its some form of a lock diff whether it be welded or 2way it wudn have mattered how well the 86 was set up i still would have been utterly s*it my first day out and ive still improved a lot since without gettin some genius of a set up.....

Midnight
21-01-10, 19:08
keep on topic boys,i think if we all wana compete we will need this info at some point or another;)

Keep the setups coming lads its great to hear the discriptions on it.

Simon
21-01-10, 19:45
You show me a champion drifter without them mods.......?

were all amatuers/begginers on here bar a few of the pros, ah chill out haha :p.... drifting is fun, all them figures make it boring!!!!

Polo
21-01-10, 21:32
Good on you polo thats the input i was hopeing for.

What tyre presures would you guys recomend for which conditions,i know it would vary from tyre to trye.???

Depends again on a few things, track conditions, speed and power but it all again comes down to traction and how much you want.

I run 18" 265/35 to 285/35 track day tyres most the time from 15psi to 50psi just adjusting all the time to get the traction i need.

PeterT
21-01-10, 23:59
The essintials ya need: Good set of coilovers with ride height camber ajustment and dampining:ajustable castor arms tie rods and camber arms and toe arms...... And a hicas lock out or eliminator........ In my eyes every car should have these and yes it is possiable to drift without them but its an awful lot easier with them................

disagree. unless your doing FAST shit, like, top of 3rd or even 4th in the dry and twinning with people, all you need is a diff and coilovers. i havnt even got a lock out bar on the cefiro, and ive no adjustable arms. im not pro or anything , but i do a bit of sliding here and there!

PeterT
22-01-10, 00:00
You show me a champion drifter without them mods.......?


oh god, stop talking balony please, and go watch the video i posted on the page before this!

Midnight
22-01-10, 13:24
Depends again on a few things, track conditions, speed and power but it all again comes down to traction and how much you want.

I run 18" 265/35 to 285/35 track day tyres most the time from 15psi to 50psi just adjusting all the time to get the traction i need.

Ok so would you run a lower psi for weter conditions and higher for dry conditions??

Jay Rockett
22-01-10, 14:00
disagree. unless your doing FAST shit, like, top of 3rd or even 4th in the dry and twinning with people, all you need is a diff and coilovers. i havnt even got a lock out bar on the cefiro, and ive no adjustable arms. im not pro or anything , but i do a bit of sliding here and there!


Yeah but he's just asking from a competitive point of view, big difference between streeto setup and whats necessary if you wana be competitive on the track!

Defo agree that seat time is key, then spend money on buying a more adjustable setup.. But if ya have some adjustable arms or whatever's been fitted from factory, it does make a difference if you spend some time(doesnt cost anything!) trying to make the car that bit better to control! or at least drive straight!

PeterT
22-01-10, 14:10
Yeah but he's just asking from a competitive point of view, big difference between streeto setup and whats necessary if you wana be competitive on the track!

Defo agree that seat time is key, then spend money on buying a more adjustable setup.. But if ya have some adjustable arms or whatever's been fitted from factory, it does make a difference if you spend some time(doesnt cost anything!) trying to make the car that bit better to control! or at least drive straight!

it does cost more,you have to but the arms:D

Seat time is the winner alrite. The AMOUNT of lads competing competitevely on DW with near standard set ups bar coilovers and extra lock id crazy compared to over here! even that lad with the auto s14! he was rediculous!


Also, when getting suspension set up for drifting, say by TDP or whoever, do they take power of car into the equation? as in, if its standard powerish would they not bother making the rear wheels sit perfectly flat on the ground for more grip?

Micko
22-01-10, 16:37
As stated when your starting off you dont really think of suspension set up but no matter what way you look at it the basics are essential e.g coilovers and tracking. Your only goin to annoy the shit outta yourself if the car isnt doin what you want it to do.

As you progress and you start pushing harder and harder and thye only way to do this is to have your car handling the way you want it!

If i had a choice between going for more power or getting all adjustable arms and getting it set up by someone that knows what there at, id choose suspension mods before power all day long. You'd knock more enjoyment from a 250 brake car set up correct than you would from a 400 brake car not set up atall!!! Getting my own car properly set up was some of the best money i ever spent. this is just my own experience!

Robbie Daly Ps13
22-01-10, 19:28
disagree. unless your doing FAST shit, like, top of 3rd or even 4th in the dry and twinning with people, all you need is a diff and coilovers. i havnt even got a lock out bar on the cefiro, and ive no adjustable arms. im not pro or anything , but i do a bit of sliding here and there!

You really are narrow minded about this aren't you........ And its not only fast shit your totally wrong....... Im not saying your car won't slide without it cause it will....... Two weeks before the B.butler memorial in goldstone myself and the lads went down to practice....... I was brutal to say the least i couldn't get round the corner without spinning or understeering........ That monday i got tein tie rods and caster arms and banged them in and the following saturday got J.Stone to set it up for me......... He told me my camber was way out and he ajusted everthing........ I went out on track and it was like a different car.... By the end of the day I was going well....... The following week was the comp and after a SoLiD days drifting i came 2nd only to loose in the final against micko....... And two weeks before i couldn't get round the track........ It wasn't me it was the fact the car handled so well.....

It just proves its all about the handling....... As micko said best money i ever spent........ Handling over power any day......

50%CAR 50%DRIVER

PeterT
23-01-10, 00:23
[QUOTE=Robbie Daly Ps13;63158]You really are narrow minded about this aren't you........ And its not only fast shit your totally wrong....... Im not saying your car won't slide without it cause it will....... /QUOTE]


from MY experience, in numerous cars, no matter how shit they are, youl get them to slide little corners like goldstone. PERSONALY cant see how you turned from not being able to slide the corners to 2nd placer after having a few arms thrown in:o but thats just me sure.



anyways

Flat Eric
23-01-10, 00:56
If people stayed in a basic car until they had it mastered and had actually got talent beyond what the car was capable then they would be a far better driver for it.Learning how to control a piece of crap car is way more fun and a better lesson than changing loads of shit so its easier to drift.

Anyone remember James Deane in that sierra ???

Obviously a lot of people just want their car to have the best bits they can afford and thats cool but if you've just bought adjustable everything and have to ask some one what way to set it then your probably not at such a level that you actually need it.

It does make a difference, at every level but the best way to figure it out is trial and error.Learning what changes effect the car mean you can best set it up for your style, just copying someone else settings is pointless imho

I think your best to start at a neutral set up, damper settings mid way, all the wheels pointing straight, 3 - 5 degrees camber up front and 1 - 2 rear maybe.A sensible ride height and average tyre pressures, depending on the car.

It's good to hear about a pro driver's set up like Polo's but you could hop into his car and think it drives shit, even though it works for him.

Micko
23-01-10, 04:02
If people stayed in a basic car until they had it mastered and had actually got talent beyond what the car was capable then they would be a far better driver for it.Learning how to control a piece of crap car is way more fun and a better lesson than changing loads of shit so its easier to drift.

Anyone remember James Deane in that sierra ???

Obviously a lot of people just want their car to have the best bits they can afford and thats cool but if you've just bought adjustable everything and have to ask some one what way to set it then your probably not at such a level that you actually need it.
It does make a difference, at every level but the best way to figure it out is trial and error.Learning what changes effect the car mean you can best set it up for your style, just copying someone else settings is pointless imho

I think your best to start at a neutral set up, damper settings mid way, all the wheels pointing straight, 3 - 5 degrees camber up front and 1 - 2 rear maybe.A sensible ride height and average tyre pressures, depending on the car.

It's good to hear about a pro driver's set up like Polo's but you could hop into his car and think it drives shit, even though it works for him.

Some of what you are saying id agree with eric, but the statement i have highligted in bold id completely disagree with!! Im not a mechanic and i dont try to be but i do have a good general knowlege of what a good competative drift car needs. I know that it needs a certain degree of camber ( keeping in mind that every car and every driver differs), toe in, toe out, castor, spring rate, rebound etc..Just because i dont know the exact settings does not mean that i am not at a level that i need it.
Thats why i got an expet like mike deane to set up my own car, a person that actually new what he was at, to dial in the correct settings to suit my actual car, and i havnt looked back since!!

Flat Eric
23-01-10, 17:50
Mike Deane certainly knows his stuff and no doubt your car is vastly improved than before.

There is no exact settings to know, every car is different as is every driver.If you had of set the car yourself at a good average setting to start, which with your 'good general knowledge' would have been easily done, then you would now know how specific changes make the car feel as you make progress and develop your set up as you go.

You are most likely plenty able to set up your car yourself but you gave it to a pro to do for you and will most likely adapt your driving to suit it.
Nothing wrong with that, my argument is that if a good driver feels they need full adjustment they will most likely research it, figure out the principle behind a particular change of angles and then have a good basic knowledge of where to start themselves.

Maybe Im a nut case and Im the only one that does it............... meh.

Chuck_g
23-01-10, 17:56
All il say is my Suspension is ALL Fucked up at the moment, cambers out, trackings out, etc etc and i ran with it all last season and i did okay. I hope to notice a huge difference when its all set up before new season but il agree if a person can drift good they can drift with or without every arm etc modified..........They make do with what they have!!

That said i have FUCK all knowledge of Suspension............so its just my humble Opinion.

git
23-01-10, 18:08
Im in the same situation i wudnt be the greatest pilot ,and i have the basics coilys, diff. antirollbars ,lecy hicas lockout camber arms ...................i havent a clue about toe camber etc ect but would love to know how it all works and try different things out one day............

Midnight
24-01-10, 19:31
Thats why i put up the bloody thread for people like polo to describe the reasons for adjusting a particular part a certain way.

NOT a load of bitchen why you should or shouldnt install such or such a set up.

Eric could you put up some info on ur cam and settings and maybe why or how the car reacts differently with them.