View Full Version : Driftfest ** rollcage**
Hi all,Me and my dad have spent the last 5 weekends fitting a rollcage to my e36 m3.
I had one of the organisers from driftfest have a look at it before next weekend, he said all the welds and bends were up to scratch, but he failed it because the rear legs are connected to the back of the wheel turrets next to where the suspension strut comes through the turret. See picture attached.
2463
Throughout the whole build of the cage i consulted the rules and regs from IDC, which i was told to do by the same person that looked at my car. Here is the paragraph that refers to the rear bars
(2.7)Hoop Rear Stays: The main Roll hoop must have two rear stays extending towards the rear of the
vehicle and connect to the chassis rails, suspension turrets or wheel wells. It must connect to the main
hoop within 100mm of the front leg joint and must be a continuous straight bar with no bends.
I have been told that i need to put in another brace between the base of the main hoop and one of the back legs.
Has anyone had this trouble with Driftfest before??
Now at the same time i think that all the cages should be up to a high standard, but they cant just be making up rules as they please??????
I think that if Driftfest want to be logging cars at a high standard they would want to sort out the rules and regs, do other people feel the same???
Sorry for the spiel just needed to get that of my chest.
All comments welcome. Thanks in advance.
Lad why are you complaining about cage regs, they are there to protect ya not just for the craic, they also strengthen and stiffen your shell therefore improving it so so why not just put it the extra brace instead of making a song and dance about it? Also Im sure that if you examine the regs it will say somewhere that the scrutineer has the final decision so its up to them at the end of the day.
The reason for not wanting to put in the extra bar is i'm working up the country for the next week and wont have the time to put it in + there is a two day waiting time to get the steel. I'm not complaining about having a cage that's up to spec, after doing one track day without a cage i said id never do a track day again without one. I'm complaining that they seem to be able to make up rules as they go.
Am i completely wrong in what i'm saying???
The reason for not wanting to put in the extra bar is i'm working up the country for the next week and wont have the time to put it in + there is a two day waiting time to get the steel. I'm not complaining about having a cage that's up to spec, after doing one track day without a cage i said id never do a track day again without one. I'm complaining that they seem to be able to make up rules as they go.
Am i completely wrong in what i'm saying???
Cant see any pics, but they dont fail cages for the craic
Pic now attached i think :huh:
2462
Pic now attached i think :huh:
2462
Not working for me anyway
The rear legs are going back too far ,if you were to roll the car the bolts would probably shear & the leg would slide backwards.
The scrutineer was right to recommend you put in another bar.
He could have said you had to cut & replace the bar in a more suitable place, so count yourself lucky.
The regs are a guideline for building a car/cage.
As each car/cage can be different it's hard to write regs to cover every detail.
That's why the scrutineer has the final say.
here's his pic...
http://www.driftireland.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2463&d=1364689056
Smokey Bear
31-03-13, 03:24
The turret will deform before four 12.9 rated bolts will shear. The only thing I would do there is weld the cage to the turret instead of bolting it alone.
There's nothing in the IDC rules to say that the cage is illegal.
http://www.driftfest.ie/documents/DF004-2013-Rules-Caged-Car_Safety_Regulations.pdf
Driftfest rules don't even specify where the bars need to be.
Wouldn't blame you for being annoyed.
Just for reference this is an FIA cage by OMP fitted to my previous car with a baseplate for the rear bar fitted perpendicular angle to the floorpan. This would a similar resultant force to your rollcage's rear bar.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/3283/IMG_3742.jpg
DaveM-sport
31-03-13, 08:51
Rather than the bolts or strength of the arch, more than likely the problem is the rear stays are at a too shallow an angle don't triangulate the forces adequately.
The hole in the bulkhead may have been convienent but might have sacrificed the strength of the cage.
Granted, it may hold up fine in the event you did need it and the welds look good but scrutineers have to draw the line somewhere too.
If your badly stuck, I have some spare CDS that would be enough for the legs for you.
Thanks for comments lads. Dave i might take you up on that offer i'l have to have a chat to my dad and see is he free during the week to weld it in. If not it looks like the street class for me
ian g sr20
31-03-13, 10:30
Run a weld around the top mount just outside weld the flat bar to the body and shud b ok then..
Some say its like an nct :)
DaveM-sport
31-03-13, 10:32
No problem. I'll pm you my number there if you need to get it off me anyway
Main reason i didn't log my car with DF this year, their rules are off the wall. If she wont pass an NCT she wont pass a DF Scrutiny!
Main reason i didn't log my car with DF this year, their rules are off the wall. If she wont pass an NCT she wont pass a DF Scrutiny!
Please explain what's "off the wall"
This is saftey and some ye giving out about it..?
It's all ok till something goes wrong. Then that's where the trouble starts..
Keep drifting fun.. But keep it safe too..
Diesel-Dick
01-04-13, 17:32
Main reason i didn't log my car with DF this year, their rules are off the wall. If she wont pass an NCT she wont pass a DF Scrutiny!
any link to the rules for this year? heard alot of people saying df brought in some new rules this year that there is just no need for alright, but never actually looked! interested to see for myself now!
Please explain what's "off the wall"
This is saftey and some ye giving out about it..?
It's all ok till something goes wrong. Then that's where the trouble starts..
Keep drifting fun.. But keep it safe too..
Prodrift set the standard a long time ago, similar series followed suit. DF, have their own rules, which some, in my opinion are silly. My car passed IDC logging on sat, if i had brought it a few feet over to Df's logging i can assure you i would have failed.
Things like failing for improper firewalls, where there is 0 risk of fire etc is a bit "off the wall". Tow straps to replace tow hooks, which ive never seen cause i problem in my years of drifting is also "off the wall". Again these are my opinions, which im entitled to voice.
any link to the rules for this year? heard alot of people saying df brought in some new rules this year that there is just no need for alright, but never actually looked! interested to see for myself now!
Dont think there is a list of rules and regs anywhere. And they seem to change by the week either way.
Hi all,Me and my dad have spent the last 5 weekends fitting a rollcage to my e36 m3.
I had one of the organisers from driftfest have a look at it before next weekend, he said all the welds and bends were up to scratch, but he failed it because the rear legs are connected to the back of the wheel turrets next to where the suspension strut comes through the turret. See picture attached.
2463
Throughout the whole build of the cage i consulted the rules and regs from IDC, which i was told to do by the same person that looked at my car. Here is the paragraph that refers to the rear bars
(2.7)Hoop Rear Stays: The main Roll hoop must have two rear stays extending towards the rear of the
vehicle and connect to the chassis rails, suspension turrets or wheel wells. It must connect to the main
hoop within 100mm of the front leg joint and must be a continuous straight bar with no bends.
I have been told that i need to put in another brace between the base of the main hoop and one of the back legs.
Has anyone had this trouble with Driftfest before??
Now at the same time i think that all the cages should be up to a high standard, but they cant just be making up rules as they please??????
I think that if Driftfest want to be logging cars at a high standard they would want to sort out the rules and regs, do other people feel the same???
Sorry for the spiel just needed to get that of my chest.
All comments welcome. Thanks in advance.
hi its ross here,i was talking to you on friday night about your cage and explained to you why it failed,and what you could do to make it easy for you to fix,i also said i could help you get it sorted,if you look at the regs and the pic of the cage you can see that the rear leg bar to the main hoop plate sit on the hole circumference , ON the pics of your cage on both legs you have weakened the bar by slicing it,there is nothing wrong with your welds and ye have done a great job on the rest of your cage,i also explained how important this bar was to you and your safety,
any car that has failed scruitiny i have explained the reasons to each driver and told them what was needed and why it was needed,there have being no rules added and we are not like an nct ,we want all drivers to enjoy themselves but most of all be safe
Hey lads.
Just bringing some clarification to this. We proposed certain original rules on our driver page and took feedback from drivers very seriously. It's no secret that we revised our initial rules and again opened up the channel for feedback from drivers. We did have some very strict rules, but now we have a set of rules freely available to the world if you go and have a look. Simply google 'Driftfest Rules' and you should see them as the first result returned. If that fails, have a look at the menu on our website.
We don't like failing cars. It puts people off, and creates a barrier between drivers and ourselves, but we need to do it if we feel that it's not up to standard. As said, our scrutineers offer great advice and low cost solutions. We're not talking about massive investments here.
The rules are in place for very valid reasons. Remember that if anything was to go wrong on track, the first thing that people would question is Driftfest and the integrity of our safety regulations and scrutineers. The last revision of the rules as they stand was on the 10th of January at 17:13, and we put a notice on the driver page to that effect, detailing the updates and revisions exactly as we had discussed.
As for the case in question, perhaps these photos will back up the scrutineers concerns.
http://imageshack.us/a/img593/2356/20130329120830.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/1331/20130329120815.jpg
any link to the rules for this year? heard alot of people saying df brought in some new rules this year that there is just no need for alright, but never actually looked! interested to see for myself now!
Dont think there is a list of rules and regs anywhere. And they seem to change by the week either way.
Ah come on now lads. I wasn't going to get involved in this, but the very fact that ye don't even know where to find the rules makes this whole thread farcical.
Can an admin please lock this up, this is ridiculous and it's clogging up my 'New Posts' feed...
Prodrift set the standard a long time ago, similar series followed suit. DF, have their own rules, which some, in my opinion are silly. My car passed IDC logging on sat, if i had brought it a few feet over to Df's logging i can assure you i would have failed.
Things like failing for improper firewalls, where there is 0 risk of fire etc is a bit "off the wall". Tow straps to replace tow hooks, which ive never seen cause i problem in my years of drifting is also "off the wall". Again these are my opinions, which im entitled to voice.
Dont think there is a list of rules and regs anywhere. And they seem to change by the week either way.
Chuck if tow straps instead of lumps of metal sticking out is off the wall your touched bud, if your car would'nt pass regs for DF and only passed IDC because of the "Already logged last year" Rule, to me it kinda says you need to spend more money on your safety than spraying the car!!
Rules and regs have been there since just after christmas, not hard to find either simply google driftfest ireland rules and regs :wink:
Chuck if tow straps instead of lumps of metal sticking out is off the wall your touched bud, if your car would'nt pass regs for DF and only passed IDC because of the "Already logged last year" Rule, to me it kinda says you need to spend more money on your safety than spraying the car!!
Rules and regs have been there since just after christmas, not hard to find either simply google driftfest ireland rules and regs :wink:
My car is perfectly safe, it always has been. I actually dont want an unsafe car, i enjoy eating food the normal way. What i am stating is that the rules in all series should be the same or very similar. So when you pass one scrutiny on the same say, you pass the other. This is my point.
While my car did not fail, i was still told to get some bits and pieces to improve safety, so this "already logged last year" attitude is idiotic. There is nothing wrong with took hooks, they have existed in racing since racing was born...so spending more money on straps when clearly marked tow hooks are present is wasteful.
This is a forum and i am entitled to my opinion.
Ah come on now lads. I wasn't going to get involved in this, but the very fact that ye don't even know where to find the rules makes this whole thread farcical.
Can an admin please lock this up, this is ridiculous and it's clogging up my 'New Posts' feed...
I know where the rules and regs are. But they seem to change weekly, well according to the boss who can never make up his mind.
This thread while slowly going off topic is only helping yourselves by showing the incorrect or correct way to mount a cage for your series. So it stays.
I will stop adding my input and get back on topic. :wink:
Prodrift set the standard a long time ago, similar series followed suit. DF, have their own rules, which some, in my opinion are silly. My car passed IDC logging on sat, if i had brought it a few feet over to Df's logging i can assure you i would have failed.
Things like failing for improper firewalls, where there is 0 risk of fire etc is a bit "off the wall". Tow straps to replace tow hooks, which ive never seen cause i problem in my years of drifting is also "off the wall". Again these are my opinions, which im entitled to voice.
Dont think there is a list of rules and regs anywhere. And they seem to change by the week either way.
hi chuck,just on your firewall issue,what car did i fail where there was 0 risk of fire,didnt know we had an electric car drifting,"there is allways a risk of fire"especially where there is fuel and heat,as i have said to any car i have failed there has being a reason given and a low cost way of making safe,we ,and i mean all drifters in ireland want drifting to grow in ireland and to be the best in europe,no 1 wants to see a driver getting seriously burnt in a car.
I think the point people are trying to make is that, there has been a couple of amendments to the rules and regs for DF and also IDC which have caused people to get frustrated n confused. But these things happen, Clarity is key when people are pouring money into these cars only to have rules or regs changed mid build!! I can assure ya that Chuck has a To Do List that will have to be dealt with in order to bring his car up to standards of safety before the IDC season starts, but he aint the only one frustrated with some of the changes in either series. There should be minimal differences between any of the drift series in Ireland but it seems there is quite a few. Maybe next year this issue wont arise!
Dont think there is a list of rules and regs anywhere. And they seem to change by the week either way.
I know where the rules and regs are. But they seem to change weekly, well according to the boss who can never make up his mind.
^Contradiction?
Come on now. We have been over all of this in the drivers page which specifically addresses any such issues.
Threads like this just drive a wedge unnecessarily and are not productive in the slightest. If Drifting in Ireland is to progress, we all need to work together.
hi chuck,just on your firewall issue,what car did i fail where there was 0 risk of fire,didnt know we had an electric car drifting,"there is allways a risk of fire"especially where there is fuel and heat,as i have said to any car i have failed there has being a reason given and a low cost way of making safe,we ,and i mean all drifters in ireland want drifting to grow in ireland and to be the best in europe,no 1 wants to see a driver getting seriously burnt in a car.
Im not questioning your motives Ross, just unhappy about certain rules as it involved a car i had worked on. The tank in this car is underneath the car and would probably be fully engulfed in flames by the time it reached the driver through the rear.
Small cracks/chips in a cars front windscreen, explain the safety issue here? Again, not having a go at you, its your job, just want to know.
^Contradiction?
Come on now. We have been over all of this in the drivers page which specifically addresses any such issues.
Threads like this just drive a wedge unnecessarily and are not productive in the slightest. If Drifting in Ireland is to progress, we all need to work together.
This is us working together. Im questioning the rules and regs to make me more educated so my car may pass a scrutiny one day. Problem here is that you dont seem to like any negative opinions at all.
If i had come on here saying i loved your rules and regs you would be thanking me for my input. I have had these opinions for a while now but after talking to a few other unhappy drivers on Saturday i decided i would voice them as others wont.
To quote Df's Fermoy event page
'Don't ever apologise for constructive criticism'
Fair points being brought up. Asking to lock threads is a bit much considering some of the people on here have spent years ripping on other series. Without those series trying to get the critiscism locked up.
Just like the drivers page bringing up these things can only help.
Looking forward to my first Df event this weekend.
Small cracks/chips in a cars front windscreen, explain the safety issue here?
I don't want to come across as a smart ass at all here Chuck, because i'm not trying to be, but I would have thought the answer to this is pretty obvious?
I think the point people are trying to make is that, there has been a couple of amendments to the rules and regs for DF and also IDC which have caused people to get frustrated n confused. But these things happen, Clarity is key when people are pouring money into these cars only to have rules or regs changed mid build!! I can assure ya that Chuck has a To Do List that will have to be dealt with in order to bring his car up to standards of safety before the IDC season starts, but he aint the only one frustrated with some of the changes in either series. There should be minimal differences between any of the drift series in Ireland but it seems there is quite a few. Maybe next year this issue wont arise!
To clarify again. Driftfest rules underwent one revision which went live early in January, which was summarised and clarified to the drivers and also openly discussed. That's a simple fact which cannot be argued with.
Both IDC and Prodrift and Driftfest work extremely hard to enforce safety to a very high standard. One minor slip up can prove disastrous for everybody in the Irish drift scene.
Irish drifting is on its way to becoming the finest in Europe.
Everyone is entitled to choose where they want to drift, and that's a great thing. But just because you drift with one organisation doesn't mean you automatically should discredit the other.
I would ask at this point that an admin (who is not involved in this conversation) locks this topic due to its derailment. I would advise to leave it in place as a point of reference.
Driftfest
DaveM-sport
01-04-13, 20:31
I wasn't disagreeing that the cage shouldn't be failed as it looked like the rear stay was at a far too shallow rake to be effective and its showed in the pics above.
But it's a little daft to have more stringent rules than IDC when your initial plan was to be a feeder series. I know ye need to have yourselves well covered especially in the first year and starting the series off in case anything happens but if Chuck is right by ye not allowing tow hooks and only wanting tow straps, that's the most stupid rule I've ever heard of!
I don't want to come across as a smart ass at all here Chuck, because i'm not trying to be, but I would have thought the answer to this is pretty obvious?
Its not obvious.......is it? Have you ever smashed a windscreen? Most windscreens after the 90's are shatter proof. Like yes there's safety, but there is overboard as well!!
To clarify again. Driftfest rules underwent one revision which went live early in January, which was summarised and clarified to the drivers and also openly discussed. That's a simple fact which cannot be argued with.
Both IDC and Prodrift and Driftfest work extremely hard to enforce safety to a very high standard. One minor slip up can prove disastrous for everybody in the Irish drift scene.
Irish drifting is on its way to becoming the finest in Europe.
Everyone is entitled to choose where they want to drift, and that's a great thing. But just because you drift with one organisation doesn't mean you automatically should discredit the other.
I would ask at this point that an admin (who is not involved in this conversation) locks this topic due to its derailment. I would advise to leave it in place as a point of reference.
Driftfest
Again.. Every series has had to deal with this critiscism. Locking it helps no1.
Take it in and move on with the view to improving. Not ducking the issue.
Well Rob, u did quote me, so I'll reply, I have only ever drifted at Driftfest events, so I'm far from discrediting another series or yours for that matter? Nor do I see anyone else discrediting a series in particular?? There are differences in regs between both series, and there have been amendments to rules n regs which have obviously caused frustration among drifters, these are being spoken about on a public forum and I don't understand why u want a thread discussing this locked!?? There has been and will continue to be issues raised about various aspects of IDC and DRIFTFEST, is this no longer allowed?? Wouldn't have commented more about this but u chose to quote my post which I feel was very fair and relative??
Im not questioning your motives Ross, just unhappy about certain rules as it involved a car i had worked on. The tank in this car is underneath the car and would probably be fully engulfed in flames by the time it reached the driver through the rear.
Small cracks/chips in a cars front windscreen, explain the safety issue here? Again, not having a go at you, its your job, just want to know.
i think i know the car your on about chuck and he had a firewall,only thing was it was an old plastic road sign and i suggested he put in light steel or aluminium,he said he was going to do that anyway,
the rules are there for everyone's safety,i drift myself and i know it costs,i have also failed my own best freind who works on my car,as a scruiteneer for drift fest ,i would like to wish all the drivers competing here in ireland and abroad a safe year and a fun year with plenty of banter,
if i have failed a car and you have any questions need answering dont hesitate to call me on 0833121728 Ross
i think i know the car your on about chuck and he had a firewall,only thing was it was an old plastic road sign and i suggested he put in light steel or aluminium,he said he was going to do that anyway,
the rules are there for everyone's safety,i drift myself and i know it costs,i have also failed my own best freind who works on my car,as a scruiteneer for drift fest ,i would like to wish all the drivers competing here in ireland and abroad a safe year and a fun year with plenty of banter,
if i have failed a car and you have any questions need answering dont hesitate to call me on 0833121728 Ross
Well its 5mm thick corrieboard, new stuff, not old road sign as i work with this every day. Its as tough as aluminium, except from something like fire or explosives.
Thanks for the info though, good to see you open to criticism without loosing the head, thanks lad.
Apologies MrMagoo, the quotation was not 100% relevant. Our response directed at every response. Also Apologies Dan if it seems that we're ducking issues. Although potentially relevant points in their own right, they're confusing the original topic.
The reasoning for wanting to lock this is that two drivers who did not read, and do not know where to locate the rules are making uneducated criticisms about them when a perfectly constructive channel to do so already exists.
We're very open to feedback when it's well informed and constructive. That doesn't mean it has to be positive. Negative feedback is far more valuable to us when presented properly. We advised the OP on several levels on how and why there were issues so there is no need for this thread to live on.
We're defending our integrity here. If people have questions and issues they need to be raised directly with us. We respond to absolutely everyone and have 3 people online at pretty much every hour of the day trying to make this organisation a success. Asking a public forum for Driftfest's motives and opinions rather than consulting official documentation is not the purpose of these forums.
I hope that this clarifies our position somewhat.
I've been watching this pretty closely as I plan on caging an e36 soon to specs for idc and driffest and no one has yet answered clearly the question that the op has posted...
So could ye all stop having a shit fit over a bit of criticism and just answer the question at hand as in show a photo/drawing/clear description of what needs to be corrected in this case and what is the correct way to do this in future and just move on with life
Here you go Maurice: http://www.google.ie/search?q=driftfest+rules
Wasn't going to get involved on here but someone like Shane Bradley, Darren Rigney or Jay Rockett should be consulted before you go off and fit a DIY cage, Rob.
Here you go Maurice: http://www.google.ie/search?q=driftfest+rules
Sound for that Larz I understand how google works myself:wink:
The question that the op posted still hasn't been answered and no where in the rule book does it say that the way he has it mounted is incorrect as in the angle the bar is lying at is wrong or the angle as to which the baseplate is welded on is wrong or the length of the bar is wrong
I'd be agreeing with Ross here and saying something needs to be done with them back legs anyway!
As for the firewall issue chuck brought up I know the car and agree that failing the firewall seems a bit mad because its an e36 bmw and the tank is under the back seat area so really is there need for a firewall then? I know I'm taking the thread off topic but I'm just confused!
haydomiata
01-04-13, 22:47
i think this thread is going well over the top as people are giving out about something that at the end of the day is about your safety! there is always going to be rules that people dont like but if you look at how drifting in this country has changed so have the rules.
back in the day people could arrive up with a dash dodger with no door bars and compete in the pros, that isnt safe to standards now. all im saying is times change and so do rules if people really have a problem with the rules dont do it simple as.....
rant over haha
i think this thread is going well over the top as people are giving out about something that at the end of the day is about your safety! there is always going to be rules that people dont like but if you look at how drifting in this country has changed so have the rules.
back in the day people could arrive up with a dash dodger with no door bars and compete in the pros, that isnt safe to standards now. all im saying is times change and so do rules if people really have a problem with the rules dont do it simple as.....
rant over haha
Dash dodgers are acceptable at Driftfest.
ian g sr20
01-04-13, 22:51
Was gona not post but said i would.
@ scooby u aint doing your job correctley as i know cars that passed with cracked with windscreen amd others failef y is this ?
If a car has tank in oem position i think a fire wall is not needed imo.
haydomiata
01-04-13, 23:00
Dash dodgers are acceptable at Driftfest.
but if you look at the rules it says as long as they are constructed to the same spec as in door bars etc so my point is still valid
Diesel-Dick
01-04-13, 23:02
why the fuck do u need a firewall in the back of an e36!? the petrol tank is in front of the firewall in them! and its under the floor anyway!
It's like you have a grudge or something chuck??
Jez lads.. Ffs.. Some ye are unreal..oh one car passed with this and one with that..
The issues here are about the drivers safety and possibly marshals safety and spectators..
I could go into a lot of details about some cars that passed through both logging days and different problem were found. And in both idc and df rules were different.. But I'm not opening a can of worms..
This whole thread opened over a car that was logged at his own house. Robert took time out of his day and went to log it..
In relation to the cage issue.
I'm sure Ross will come on here and do his job..
Just please stop been sour grapes and a pack of queers and fix your car to spec.
See ye all sat..
Bart
why the fuck do u need a firewall in the back of an e36!? the petrol tank is in front of the firewall in them! and its under the floor anyway!
Does'nt make any difference what poxy car it is, firewall's are needed for comps, end of really. Be like saying why do i have to firewall my S14 with the tank underneat. Do any of you really think any series wants lads that know better going around without having any consideration about what actually happens if the tank gets a slap? Can even be something like kev's PS13 in stones when exhaust started a small fire when a bit of petrol leaked onto it.
Seriously lads some of you need to cop the fuck on and have a bit of common sense, fair amount of shit stirring aswell
Sound for that Larz I understand how google works myself:wink:
The question that the op posted still hasn't been answered and no where in the rule book does it say that the way he has it mounted is incorrect as in the angle the bar is lying at is wrong or the angle as to which the baseplate is welded on is wrong or the length of the bar is wrong
Oh sorry lad wasn't trying to be smart, I thought you were looking for the rules. I think it's the angle that's wrong.
The more detailed the cage safety specs, the more people will have problems. The rules are a guideline but basic cage safety rules and what a cage actually does needs to be fully understood before building a cage in my opinion.
Rules are rules lads. For 2013 we just have to accept them for now and I'm sure the firewall rule will be revisited.
nikkisixx69
01-04-13, 23:25
is there anything to be said for another mass?
Iv no interest in getting involved on never ending rows on this anymore but lets call a spade a spade Bart and Stevo.
To be talking about grudges, sour grapes or shit stirring.
Ye were always 1 of the first 2 to have a go at other series over much to do about nothing and had a go at people than for defending them?
Now the shoe is on the other foot and ye dont like it?
Bit ironic.
Anyways for example the angle of bars etc would be obvious to alot of us whov been around the scene a long time but to some maybe not so much hence maybe a more detailed cage reg in particular in future wuld help.
Aint been to Df before but i am looking forward to the weekend. So much new machinery and best of luck to all involved including all at Df.
Bart the problem is according to the df rules and regs my car is up to spec.
All I was saying is that the rules are vague on some aspects of the cage.
nikkisixx69
01-04-13, 23:39
gonna shut this down for the moment unless otherwise requested
its starting to turn into a bit of a bitchin session and the last thing we want is there to be any fast and the furious type brawls at IDC or DF like when vin diesel and johnny tran had a scrap at race wars
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