Front tyre advice - MX5

[B.Egan]

Right just something I've been wondering and thought I'd ask for some advice from ppl who know more on here. Atleast one person who knew what they're talking about commented about my tyre setup at PD Ennis. Basically I was/am running R888s on the front. Now they said that I would be much better off running a worse performing tyre upfront. With the car being so short and snappy, I can see what they mean, that a worse tyre should enduce some understeer in transitions, and make it less snappy in theory?

But should I really ditch the R888s? I always thought running as good tyres on the front as you could would be a bonus. Or is my car just a special case, or similar to 86s for example, and that the above only is only really beneficial on longer more stable cars.

We've done no real fiddling with the mx5 as such yet, due to no track time, and the fact that the car was controllable, and in many ways since mx5s/miatas havent a great drifting rep I thought we may have come across about as good as we could get it lol! But with mondello this sunday theres room to try a few things maybe and tinker a bit, so just looking for advice or suggestions, on anything from what ppl saw, noticed or know from experience with similar cars.

Cheers!!:cool:

[Greg]

If, as you say yourself, the car is controllable, then why change anything? Are you happy with how it drives now?

[B.Egan]

Its controllable to a point, and I also always knew it would be trickier than any s bodies I've driven for example. That was gonna be the case, but also maybe the snappyness has its advantages in battles etc. if I could get a handle on it.

But my main problem with the car is when I transition it seems, I feel I have it caught fine.....and then it spins. Hard to explain but you can kind of see it in this vid from about 1.30 on (I dont spin, straighten but same thing really).
YouTube - ProDrift RAW!! - Onboards Ennis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKWOwjnImE)

At speed it feels great. Transitioning/manjiing the second half of the course it was perfect. Its just on the tight slow down corners, like the last corner in PL for example where it seems to catch me out. If it was on the initial transition snap I could understand, but it seems to be a bit after that. More lock would help I suppose, but it also maybe seems like the front tyres are just slowing the whole front down too much, and the back without any power applied is just overtaking it?

Of course I am far from an experienced driver, and I'm sure I can overcome or learn to deal with this with more seat time, but also if it is something that can be changed or helped it would be nice! Or to even know that its something that I shouldnt change and waste my time switching tyres etc?

[blusrule]

Try the 888s and a different type of tyre in Mondello and see what you recon. No point asking others advice since you are the driver. I always liked Hankooks though

[B.Egan]

Try the 888s and a different type of tyre in Mondello and see what you recon. No point asking others advice since you are the driver. I always liked Hankooks though

It's a good point lol! Its just that it was actually Bon Bon who said it to my brother AFAIK, and it really is something we probably would never have thought of unless mentioned to us. So I was nearly hoping for another few free golden nuggets of wisdom or advice. But nevermind you're probably right, we've gotten it this far I suppose so nows not the time to get lazy......we'll figure it out ha!!:D

[Greg]

Sounds like you need more grip on the back to match the front end. I'm a novice like yourself but I found at PL when I ran 50psi in the back tyres and whatever in the fronts, the car would just snap around, but when I dropped the pressures in the back a good bit things improved greatly. Then my handbrake failed, but that's another story. :)

[carpo]

never liked r888..ive used the yoko a048 the past 2 1/2 years great tyre...

[retro head]

ive heard this said before about putting too grippy a tyre on the front and dont understand it exactly as youd imagine your front wheels will never be and you wouldnt want them to break traction sideways but should always be rolling freely in whatever direction theyd be facing,if ye get me?

or is it something to do with the ackermann angle that on certain degrees of lock your inside or outside wheel will be scrubbing as its not following the same line as the other wheel?

on my cam i had crap nexen road tyres on the front then changed to soft compound a048s and they are just class! havent noticed any detrimental effects caused by them only that my steering binds up on occasion but thats to do with my rack going over angle on full lock,other than that she drifts silky smooth up mondello straight

[retro head]

Sounds like you need more grip on the back to match the front end. I'm a novice like yourself but I found at PL when I ran 50psi in the back tyres and whatever in the fronts, the car would just snap around, but when I dropped the pressures in the back a good bit things improved greatly. Then my handbrake failed, but that's another story. :)

i dont like running extra psi it makes bits of tyres in no time and spins way too easy and as you say unbalances the car somewhat

[Keli]

i dont like running extra psi it makes bits of tyres in no time and spins way too easy and as you say unbalances the car somewhat

I always ran massive psi for messing on the road and the like, but only realised after progressing onto tracks that a car actually needs grip for better transitions, so run normal pressures now. As a general rule I'd always have decent tyres on the front of my car, and whatever on the back. Except for now, but they're to be changed.


Edit - Greg on Keli's account.

[B.Egan]

Well I know that with my current alignment setup I run alot of toe out on the front for the sole purpose of causing some understeer through transition, to make it smoother effectively. MX5s are shorter wheelbase than even an 86 for example. The thinking is then that maybe the R888s grip combined with the lightweight nature of the car are maybe cancelling this effect out? The alignment setup I got is from Celsea DeNofa basically in the US who used to drift miatas (won the XDC over there in a E36 last year). However his settings were seriously extreme in the amount of toe out on front and toe in at the rear, so I effectively halved all his values.

[peterhouze]

i know a fella who drifts a mx5 in the states i could get the alignment figures for ya if ya find that a bit aggressive
and for tyres in dont know

[Micko]

i have ran the Kuhmo v70's the last while and they are unbelievable!

But i see where your coming from. i felt at times i had a small bit too much grip on the front in fermoy last year and didnt transition aswell as i would like, in some cases the more loose the car is, the more flickability and forward speed you get aswell if that makes sense..

Exceptions though i think are bigger tracks like mondello where theres less transitioning and you are more reliant so on front end grip as a higher speed entry.

[haydomiata]

Ive gt toyo t1rs n my yoke il b up wit doofer wit da blue onevia and biziryan wit da cam(hopefully haha ) u cn try them out if u want there nearly new so wont burn up nd there n rotas so cnt be much heavyr then ur bandeds :)

[twailbait]

What I'd do is go for a slightly less grippy tyre up front, and a slight more grippy one on the rear. Try match them abit better, so the cars more balance.

I've always run T1R's on the front of the mx, and found them great.

[Jay Rockett]

Best thing for you to try this weekend is to go out with your current setup, if its grippy upfront and not so grippy on the rear, for your first session then swap the wheels around for the next session and see how you feel! Personally what id do with a short wheel base car like the mx is go out with a decent road tyre upfront like a federal 595ss or maybe a T1R and narrow, crappy tyres on the rear to get used to transitioning a snappy car then start introducing more grip upfront with a better tyre if you feel its understeering!
Then once your happy with the front and comfortable skidding the mx, start introducing more grip on the rear for faster drifting!

Negative camber and narrow/small wheels on the rear is the best way to get used to short wheel base cars, once your happy then start going for more rear end grip!

[B.Egan]

i know a fella who drifts a mx5 in the states i could get the alignment figures for ya if ya find that a bit aggressive
and for tyres in dont know
I'm ok for alignment I think. Quite happy with what I have and dont really have the money or time to keep on fiddling too much with it atm.


i have ran the Kuhmo v70's the last while and they are unbelievable!

But i see where your coming from. i felt at times i had a small bit too much grip on the front in fermoy last year and didnt transition aswell as i would like, in some cases the more loose the car is, the more flickability and forward speed you get aswell if that makes sense..

Exceptions though i think are bigger tracks like mondello where theres less transitioning and you are more reliant so on front end grip as a higher speed entry.
This is exactly what I was trying to describe and think of Mick! Makes sense to me anyway..


Ive gt toyo t1rs n my yoke il b up wit doofer wit da blue onevia and biziryan wit da cam(hopefully haha ) u cn try them out if u want there nearly new so wont burn up nd there n rotas so cnt be much heavyr then ur bandeds :)
Cheers man, wouldnt like to use your own tyres tbh though. Just in case I damage them or something! Very sound of you to offer though! Head over for a chat and a look around if you want on the day man!

Also worth noting my wheels arent actually banded steels either, just spun steel wheels. Something ppl constantly say to me though...


Best thing for you to try this weekend is to go out with your current setup, if its grippy upfront and not so grippy on the rear, for your first session then swap the wheels around for the next session and see how you feel! Personally what id do with a short wheel base car like the mx is go out with a decent road tyre upfront like a federal 595ss or maybe a T1R and narrow, crappy tyres on the rear to get used to transitioning a snappy car then start introducing more grip upfront with a better tyre if you feel its understeering!
Then once your happy with the front and comfortable skidding the mx, start introducing more grip on the rear for faster drifting!

Negative camber and narrow/small wheels on the rear is the best way to get used to short wheel base cars, once your happy then start going for more rear end grip!

This sounds like win and makes sense. I wont have any particularly good front tyres though but do have new generic brand shitty ones. May sort out some off a mate though. R888s would be too grippy for the rear too I think. Doesnt quite have that sort of power.

Would like to go back to lower profile narrower tyres too, rather than 205/50s, but I had to use them in Portlaoise as the tyres kept popping off. No beadlock on the wheels. But may be ok on tracks with no big gutters etc. If nothing else the profile 50s have ruined my stance lol!!!:p

And Timmy I think T1Rs may be my route in the future. Still good grip, but not stupid levels of stickyness either. May give me the nice balance I need

[haydomiata]

I have no prob u usin my wheels lad i ave to get 2 of them balanced and shit neway so id have no prob givin then to ya plus i want to see that yoke fly saw hpt at ennis it got me mad to take out a loan and turbo mine haha

[B.Egan]

I have no prob u usin my wheels lad i ave to get 2 of them balanced and shit neway so id have no prob givin then to ya plus i want to see that yoke fly saw hpt at ennis it got me mad to take out a loan and turbo mine haha

good stuff man! Sure we'll have a chat on the day and see how things are going!

[DaveM-sport]

Only driven an mx-5 for a short few spins and on the road so can't really offer much opinion on how yours handles but in terms of giving reason to the extreme settings with toe-out in front and in on the rear would have been mostly to try stop the rear from being too twitchy and make it more stable during corners and drifts and prevent it spinning around.


On any car, you should aim to have balanced grip both front and rear anyway so might be better off trying T1-rs all round and see how it goes.
If it works for you, it'll probably end up being alot better than R888s on the front and lesser grip at the rear.